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> Canada’s Supreme Court denies exemption from Quebec relativism course
pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 17th 2012, 2:40 PM
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Basically, The Supreme Court has told parents they have no right to decide what their children are taught in school.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/court+...9296/story.html


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/0...-challenge.html


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RWG
post Feb 17th 2012, 3:05 PM
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They should homeschool their sons if they don't want them learning about other cultures.

And 84% of Quebec is Catholic. I doubt this is a problem if it's just two parents taking issue to an extent that merits an article being written.


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 17th 2012, 3:31 PM
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You're missing the point.

How would you like it if you were told: "What your children learn is none of your business. We, the government will decide what your children learn every day. We're smarter than you! We know more about what is best for your own children than you do!"

A parent has a fundamental right to decide what kind of education their children receive. For anyone to deny them that right, is outrageous. But then, denial of fundamental rights is an old game in Quebec.

Homeschooling is great, but isn't desirable for all or even possible for some families. It shouldn't be the only other option.

This post has been edited by *Christy*: Feb 17th 2012, 3:33 PM


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solastalgia
post Feb 17th 2012, 5:04 PM
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I personally think it's the educational system's obligation to instill a value of multiculturalism and tolerance in children/adolescents, so I don't see a problem with this.

If this is just required at the school, then why not move the child to a different school? I get that you wouldn't want your kid to go through the shock of changing schools but you have to make choices and weigh your options. If the class is a requirement for all schools, then I think it would be ludicrous to expect your child to be some special exception because you want to shield him/her from other beliefs.

I digress - this shouldn't be a commentary on their parenting. On the main point: parents should decide what kind of education a child gets, but there's an extent. If some parents were getting into every aspect of their child's education, the child would likely have bogus schedules that wouldn't prepare them for the real world. Schools have a responsibility as well to ensure every child gets a proper education, and so they have to make certain decisions on their curriculum. There have to be standards put in place. If one standard is "every child should take a class about ethics and religious culture", then so be it.

The only problem I see is if the teacher, instead of opening discussion, preaches to the class. This is probably how the parents see it as well. Why can't they sit in on a class or two to determine whether or not they do feel the teacher is "indoctrinating" the students? If there is an issue, they can take it up with the administration, who will then evaluate the teacher themselves. That's really where this discussion should begin, in my opinion.

This post has been edited by malfunctiones: Feb 17th 2012, 4:57 PM


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 17th 2012, 5:31 PM
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Since when is it a public school's job to make sure all their students believe certain things? We're not talking about English, Math or Chemistry here. If the content of a class goes against the values that a parent is trying to instil in their children, then they have the right to say no. You don't have to agree with their beliefs, it's no one else's business but theirs.

This post has been edited by *Christy*: Feb 17th 2012, 5:55 PM


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solastalgia
post Feb 17th 2012, 6:04 PM
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When a large number of people base their entire perceptions of different cultures and religions on stereotypes and limited real knowledge/understanding, the education system as a whole is broken and needs to be fixed. This isn't a "well if your child wants to, they can" sort of thing. This is large scale positive change they are trying to create.

No school should force beliefs on students, but more schools should open their classrooms up to constructive discussion. If these sort of topics are open to mature discussion at an earlier age, children are less likely to grow up to be closed minded or bigoted.

I hope my point of view is easier to understand now.

This post has been edited by malfunctiones: Feb 17th 2012, 6:04 PM


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 17th 2012, 6:27 PM
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Well, try to understand the side of parents that are trying to raise their kids in the Christian faith. This class will expose their kids to certain beliefs and values that contradict theirs and at an age when they are easily confused by peers or teachers. You may not approve of it, but it's what these parents want and it's their right.


And this sort of thing can be a slippery slope. Next you know, they could be outlawing homeschooling. It's already happened in other countries.



This post has been edited by *Christy*: Feb 17th 2012, 6:29 PM


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RWG
post Feb 17th 2012, 7:17 PM
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QUOTE(*Christy* @ Feb 17th 2012, 12:31 PM) *

You're missing the point.

How would you like it if you were told: "What your children learn is none of your business. We, the government will decide what your children learn every day. We're smarter than you! We know more about what is best for your own children than you do!"

A parent has a fundamental right to decide what kind of education their children receive. For anyone to deny them that right, is outrageous. But then, denial of fundamental rights is an old game in Quebec.

Homeschooling is great, but isn't desirable for all or even possible for some families. It shouldn't be the only other option.

I don't see how parents are being told their children's education is none of their business. They're being told precisely what their children have to learn to complete the ministry's curriculum. And I can't find anything in the article that suggests teachers were forcing alien beliefs on students as much as they were teaching them about other cultures.

You can learn about subjects without having its related beliefs forced on you. History teachers don't force Naziism on students when they teach them about the holocaust. Parents should certainly take an interest in what their students are learning, but to set up a "create your own curriculum" system based on your own beliefs is a bit out there for a public school system. Some parents don't believe in academically accepted notions in science and history. Some take issue with things like bilingualism or physical education, and some may just think math is useless. That doesn't mean their kids should be exempt from the classes everyone else has to take.

In response to your question, I'd argue the government does know better about what my kids should be learning than I do. Education ministries do research trends in schools, how students learn, and what they need to know when they begin their post-secondary pursuits. Most parents don't know these things.

I agree that parents have the right to choose what kind of education their children get (to a certain age), but parents who opt out of homeschooling or private schools just have to accept that the public schooling system is funded by tax revenue and administered by the government.


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kamil24
post Feb 18th 2012, 11:21 PM
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I see no problem in learning about other religions. I was in a Catholic school, and in Grade 11 we had a mandatory World Religions course. No one had a problem with this, it didn't change what I believe, but it was interesting to learn about what other people around the world believe.

This post has been edited by kamil24: Feb 22nd 2012, 7:30 PM


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Stormiya
post Feb 19th 2012, 12:49 PM
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If these parents don't like it they can homeschool their kids. whistling.gif


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 19th 2012, 7:07 PM
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Anyhow, I really worry that someday, parents will have zero say in their children's education. No homeschooling allowed or anything. Just all students taking the same government mandated required courses for elementary to high school. No input from parents or students.

This post has been edited by *Christy*: Feb 19th 2012, 8:08 PM


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ionlywantu2stay
post Feb 20th 2012, 10:18 AM
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As long as the school doesn't push a certain belief system then I don't see what the problem. My parents raised me Christian but I certainly didn't see a problem learning about what other cultures have for religious beliefs. Learning about Buddhism does not mean I am a Buddhist. And it isn't as though the class was bashing Catholicism or saying that it was wrong, it was presenting an unbiased view of a number of belief systems. If the class was bashing Catholicism, that would be another story altogether, as that is definitely unacceptable. At the end of the day people believe what they want. When these children grow up, they will be exposed to other cultures and beliefs in the "real world." It's going to happen. And if the parents take issue, then there are is always the option of religious schools or homeschooling.

This post has been edited by ionlywantu2stay: Feb 20th 2012, 10:22 AM


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bumnummies
post Feb 20th 2012, 9:35 PM
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QUOTE(RWG @ Feb 17th 2012, 3:05 PM) *

They should homeschool their sons if they don't want them learning about other cultures.

And 84% of Quebec is Catholic. I doubt this is a problem if it's just two parents taking issue to an extent that merits an article being written.


yes.gif

QUOTE(*Christy* @ Feb 17th 2012, 3:31 PM) *

You're missing the point.

How would you like it if you were told: "What your children learn is none of your business. We, the government will decide what your children learn every day. We're smarter than you! We know more about what is best for your own children than you do!"

A parent has a fundamental right to decide what kind of education their children receive. For anyone to deny them that right, is outrageous. But then, denial of fundamental rights is an old game in Quebec.

Homeschooling is great, but isn't desirable for all or even possible for some families. It shouldn't be the only other option.


OK, but if that were true, then some states in the US wouldn't teach their kids science.

Besides, they do have a right: They can homeschool them under the curriculum they see fit; They can send them to Catholic school; they can send them to private school. They don't have to be under the public system.

And if this is a class being taught at a Catholic school - I took "World Religions" and all that was being taught was what each religion celebrates and what not - that's it. There was no spin on it to make you want to suddenly be another religion, all it was designed to do was to educate the class on what others around the world believe in - and Christianity was one of the religions covered, along with Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and to a lesser extent, some of the smaller, lesser known ones like Taoism. This was Grade 11, Catholic high school. Graduation requirement, since you had to have 4 religion requirements - and PS, as a non-Catholic, maybe I should have been exempt from religion class... OH WAIT, I decided to be in that system, so I sucked it up. My friend's husband & siblings are MUSLIM and they went to a Catholic high school too. giggle.gif


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bumnummies
post Feb 20th 2012, 9:41 PM
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QUOTE(ionlywantu2stay @ Feb 20th 2012, 10:18 AM) *

As long as the school doesn't push a certain belief system then I don't see what the problem. My parents raised me Christian but I certainly didn't see a problem learning about what other cultures have for religious beliefs. Learning about Buddhism does not mean I am a Buddhist. And it isn't as though the class was bashing Catholicism or saying that it was wrong, it was presenting an unbiased view of a number of belief systems. If the class was bashing Catholicism, that would be another story altogether, as that is definitely unacceptable. At the end of the day people believe what they want. When these children grow up, they will be exposed to other cultures and beliefs in the "real world." It's going to happen. And if the parents take issue, then there are is always the option of religious schools or homeschooling.


I think learning about Hinduism was my favourite and it came in handy on one episode of Jeopardy. giggle.gif


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 23rd 2012, 2:16 PM
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Apparently in Alberta, they're planning on forcing a similar curriculum on homeschoolers.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/alberta-r...n-homeschoolers


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pnkrngrwnnb
post Feb 24th 2012, 6:01 PM
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This editorial does a good job of explaining the Christian point of view on this matter.


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/editorial...r-of-the-family


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